Legislature(2003 - 2004)

03/31/2004 07:05 AM House W&M

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
           HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS                                                                          
                         March 31, 2004                                                                                         
                           7:05 a.m.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mike Hawker, Chair                                                                                               
Representative Bruce Weyhrauch, Vice Chair                                                                                      
Representative Vic Kohring                                                                                                      
Representative Dan Ogg                                                                                                          
Representative Ralph Samuels                                                                                                    
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
Representative Max Gruenberg                                                                                                    
Representative Carl Moses                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Paul Seaton                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
HOUSE BILL NO. 538                                                                                                              
"An Act  relating to  taxes on  cigarettes and  tobacco products;                                                               
relating to tax  stamps on cigarettes; relating  to forfeiture of                                                               
cigarettes   and   of   property   used   in   the   manufacture,                                                               
transportation,  or sale  of  unstamped  cigarettes; relating  to                                                               
licenses  and   licensees  under  the  Cigarette   Tax  Act;  and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 537                                                                                                              
"An Act relating  to the levy, collection,  and administration of                                                               
sales and  use taxes  on tourism services;  and providing  for an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 538                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: TOBACCO TAX; LICENSING; PENALTIES                                                                                  
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
03/18/04       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/18/04       (H)       W&M, L&C, FIN                                                                                          
03/24/04       (H)       W&M AT 7:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
03/24/04       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/24/04       (H)       MINUTE(W&M)                                                                                            
03/26/04       (H)       W&M AT 7:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
03/26/04       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/26/04       (H)       MINUTE(W&M)                                                                                            
03/31/04       (H)       W&M AT 7:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 537                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: TOURISM SALES AND USE TAXES                                                                                        
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
03/18/04       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/18/04       (H)       W&M, L&C, FIN                                                                                          
03/24/04       (H)       W&M AT 7:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
03/24/04       (H)       <Bill Hearing Postponed to Fri. 3/26>                                                                  
03/26/04       (H)       W&M AT 7:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
03/26/04       (H)       <Bill Hearing Postponed to 3/31/04>                                                                    
03/31/04       (H)       W&M AT 7:00 AM HOUSE FINANCE 519                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                              
MICHAEL BARNHILL, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                    
Commercial/Fair Business Section                                                                                                
Civil Division                                                                                                                  
Department of Law (DOL)                                                                                                         
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Explained Amendment 1 and answered                                                                         
questions about the proposed committee substitute (CS) for HB
538.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
WILLIAM CORBUS, Commissioner                                                                                                    
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Revenue (DOR)                                                                                                     
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Introduced HB 537 on behalf of the Office                                                                  
of the Governor.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DAN DICKINSON, Director                                                                                                         
Tax Division                                                                                                                    
Department of Revenue                                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Explained HB 537 and answered questions on                                                                 
behalf of DOR.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHIP THOMA                                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified during the discussion of HB 537.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DENNIS BRANDON, President                                                                                                       
Cook Inlet Region, Incorporated (CIRI) Alaska Tourism                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 537.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ROGER GAY                                                                                                                       
Big Lake, Alaska                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 537.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE BUSTAMONTE, President and Chief Executive Officer                                                                         
Anchorage Convention and Visitors Bureau (ACVB)                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 537.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
RON PECK, President                                                                                                             
Alaska Travel Industry Association (ATIA)                                                                                       
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 537.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
JOHN SHIVELY, Vice President                                                                                                    
for Government and Community Relations                                                                                          
Holland America Lines                                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified during the discussion of HB 537.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ALLAN TESCHE, Member                                                                                                            
Anchorage Assembly                                                                                                              
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified during the discussion of HB 537.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
GEORGE REIFENSTEIN, JR., General Manager                                                                                        
Mount Roberts Tramway                                                                                                           
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 537.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MIKE WINDRED, Director of Operations                                                                                            
Alaska Travel Adventure (ATA)                                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 537.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
LORENE PALMER, President and Chief Executive Officer                                                                            
Juneau Convention and Visitors Bureau                                                                                           
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 537.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DALE ANDERSON, Owner                                                                                                            
Auke Lake Bed and Breakfast                                                                                                     
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 537.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DOT WILSON, Owner                                                                                                               
Coastal Helicopters                                                                                                             
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 537.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
PAMELA LaBOLLE, President                                                                                                       
Alaska State Chamber of Commerce (ASCC)                                                                                         
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 537.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS VONIMHOFF, Manager                                                                                                        
Alyeska Ski Resort;                                                                                                             
Member,                                                                                                                         
Visitors Benefit Alaska                                                                                                         
Girdwood, Alaska                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified during the discussion of HB 537.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 04-19, SIDE A                                                                                                            
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MIKE HAWKER called the  House Special Committee on Ways and                                                             
Means  meeting to  order at  7:05 a.m.   Representatives  Hawker,                                                               
Samuels, Kohring,  Weyhrauch, Wilson,  Gruenberg, Moses,  and Ogg                                                               
were present  at the  call to order.   Representative  Seaton was                                                               
also present.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
HB 538-TOBACCO TAX; LICENSING; PENALTIES                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
[Contains discussion of SB 168]                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0200                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER announced that the  first order of business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL NO.  538, "An Act relating to taxes  on cigarettes and                                                               
tobacco products; relating to tax  stamps on cigarettes; relating                                                               
to  forfeiture  of  cigarettes  and   of  property  used  in  the                                                               
manufacture,  transportation, or  sale  of unstamped  cigarettes;                                                               
relating to licenses  and licensees under the  Cigarette Tax Act;                                                               
and providing  for an effective date."   He noted that  Version D                                                               
includes  the two  amendments that  were passed  at the  previous                                                               
meeting.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0244                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH  moved to  adopt the  proposed committee                                                               
substitute (CS)  to HB 538,  labeled 23-GH2116D,  Kurtz, 3/29/04,                                                               
as the  working document.   There being  no objection,  Version D                                                               
was before the committee.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0300                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS moved  to adopt Amendment 4  which read as                                                               
follows:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, following line 26:                                                                                                 
          Insert new bill section to read:                                                                                      
       "* Sec.  4.    AS 43.50.105 is  amended to add  a new                                                                  
     subsection to read:                                                                                                        
          (i) A person who violates the provisions of this                                                                      
     section is  jointly and severally liable  for the taxes                                                                    
     imposed  by AS  43.50.090  and AS  43.50.190.   To  the                                                                    
     fullest  extent permitted  by the  Constitution of  the                                                                    
     United  States, such  persons are  required to  collect                                                                    
     the taxes and pay them to the department."                                                                                 
     Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                                                                          
     Page 5, lines 5-6:                                                                                                         
          Delete all material                                                                                                   
          Insert: "Sec. 43.50.625.  Forfeiture of other                                                                       
     property.  (a) Upon a  showing of probable cause that a                                                                  
     person has committed the  crime of misconduct involving                                                                    
     unstamped  cigarettes or  stamps  in  the first  degree                                                                    
     under  AS  43.50.640,  the  following  are  subject  to                                                                    
     forfeiture:"                                                                                                               
     Page 5, line 8:                                                                                                            
       Delete "possession for sale, barter, or exchange"                                                                        
          Insert "or possession for sale"                                                                                       
     Page 5, lines 11-12:                                                                                                       
          Delete "possessed for sale, or bartered or                                                                            
     exchanged"                                                                                                                 
          Insert "or possessed for sale"                                                                                        
     Page 7, lines 19-28                                                                                                        
          Delete all material                                                                                                   
     Renumber following subsections accordingly                                                                                 
     Page 8, following line 16:                                                                                                 
          Insert new bill sections to read:                                                                                     
       "* Sec. 15.  AS 43.50.640(a) is amended to read:                                                                       
          (a) A person commits the crime of misconduct                                                                          
     involving unstamped  cigarettes or stamps in  the first                                                                    
     degree if the person                                                                                                       
  (1) with reckless disregard that the cigarettes are                                                                           
     unstamped                                                                                                                  
  (A)   sells or distributes 5,000  [1,000] or more                                                                         
     unstamped cigarettes in a single transaction;                                                                              
  (B)   owns or possesses 5,000 [1,000] or more unstamped                                                                   
     cigarettes with the intent to sell; or                                                                                     
  (C)   acquires, holds, transports, imports, or possesses                                                                      
     10,000 or more unstamped cigarettes; or                                                                                    
  (2) with reckless disregard that the stamp was                                                                                
     previously affixed to another cigarette package,[;]                                                                    
  (A) affixes a previously used stamp to a cigarette                                                                            
     package; or                                                                                                                
  (B) possesses, sells, or distributes a previously used                                                                        
     stamp.                                                                                                                     
      * Sec. 16.  AS 43.50.650(a) is amended to read:                                                                         
          (a) A person commits the crime of misconduct                                                                          
     involving unstamped cigarettes or  stamps in the second                                                                    
     degree if the person                                                                                                       
   (1)  with reckless disregard that the cigarettes are                                                                         
     unstamped                                                                                                                  
  (A) sells or distributes at least one but fewer than                                                                          
     5,000   [1,000]  unstamped   cigarettes  in   a  single                                                                
     transaction;                                                                                                               
  (B) owns or possesses at least one but fewer than  5,000                                                                  
     [1,000] unstamped cigarettes, with intent to sell; or                                                                      
  (C)  acquires, holds, transports, imports, or possesses                                                                       
     at   least  one   but  fewer   than  10,000   unstamped                                                                    
     cigarettes; or                                                                                                             
     (2)  is not  licensed under  this chapter  or otherwise                                                                    
     authorized  by the  department  to  possess stamps  and                                                                    
     possesses a  stamp that is  not affixed to  a cigarette                                                                    
     package."                                                                                                                  
     Renumber following bill sections accordingly.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH objected for discussion purposes.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0402                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL  BARNHILL,  Assistant Attorney  General,  Commercial/Fair                                                               
Business  Section,  Civil  Division,   Department  of  Law  (DOL)                                                               
explained  Amendment  4  by  saying  it  addresses  many  of  the                                                               
concerns mentioned  in the last meeting.   He said it  adds a new                                                               
Section 4  on page 2  of the  bill in response  to Representative                                                               
Gruenberg's concern  about the  Quill decision,  which has  to do                                                               
with individuals  that import cigarettes  to Alaska and  who then                                                               
would be liable for the tax.   He explained that last session the                                                               
legislature enacted a bill which  prohibits importation by a non-                                                               
licensee, so he  said he predicts it won't be  much of a problem.                                                               
If there  is a cigarette  seller from out  of state who  does not                                                               
have  physical presence  in Alaska  and  who is  selling a  large                                                               
number  of  cigarettes  to  people   in  Alaska  who  don't  have                                                               
licenses, subsection  (i), which is  an addition to  the shipping                                                               
restriction statute,  43.50.105, should  address that issue.   It                                                               
would make  the out-of-state  shipper liable for  the tax  to the                                                               
full  extent permitted  by the  constitution.   He called  it the                                                               
"Quill notion," which would allow tax to be collected from [out-                                                                
of-state] sellers.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0605                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BARNHILL  explained  that  the  next  proposed  section  [of                                                               
Amendment 4]  deals with  the forfeiture  provision, which  is on                                                               
page 5 of  the proposed CS.   The preamble in the  CS [lines 5-6]                                                               
which  says  "The  following  are   subject  to  forfeiture:"  is                                                               
deleted.   He  said that  the  only conduct  targeted is  conduct                                                               
which  rises to  the level  of a  felony, which  is clarified  by                                                               
inserting "Upon  a showing  of probable cause  that a  person has                                                               
committed the crime of  misconduct involving unstamped cigarettes                                                               
or stamps in  the first degree under AS  43.50.640, the following                                                               
are subject to forfeiture:".                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BARNHILL,  turning to  the  second  page of  [Amendment  4],                                                               
pointed out  that in  [subsection (a),  paragraphs (1)  and (2)],                                                               
the transactions  of bartering and  exchanging have  been deleted                                                               
in response  to Representative Samuels'  concerns and  a proposal                                                               
made by Deputy Commissioner Porter.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0730                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GRUENBERG  remarked   that   [that  portion   of                                                               
Amendment 4] may not be technically  correct.  Looking at page 2,                                                               
lines 4-6  of the amendment, he  asked if Mr. Barnhill  has the D                                                               
version of the bill handy.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNHILL replied he does.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG suggested,  included  in [the  wording]                                                               
which eliminates "possessed for  sale, or bartered or exchanged",                                                               
should also be  "for goods and services".  He  asked Mr. Barnhill                                                               
if that additional phrase is needed.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNHILL said Representative Gruenberg is absolutely right.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG offered that as a friendly amendment.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNHILL said he appreciates  that observation.  He corrected                                                               
the amendment on  page 2, lines 1  and 5, to add  the words, "for                                                               
goods and services".                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0906                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from  7:15 a.m. to 7:17 a.m. to fix                                                               
technical difficulties with the off-net sites.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0944                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  withdrew  his friendly  amendment  and                                                               
moved  to adopt  a  conceptual amendment  to  Amendment 4,  which                                                               
would change the  language on page 5,  lines 7, 8, and  9 [of the                                                               
proposed  CS]  to  say  "material   and  equipment  used  in  the                                                               
manufacture, sale, offering  for sale, or possession  for sale of                                                               
cigarettes  in  this  state  in  violation  of  -  and  then  the                                                               
statutes."  There being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BARNHILL  continued  to explain  the  changes  contained  in                                                               
Amendment 4.   He noted that  [subsection (i)] on page  7 [of the                                                               
proposed  CS]  is  deleted  in response  to  concerns  voiced  by                                                               
members of  the committee.   He said  that the judge  could still                                                               
order forfeiture at his or her discretion.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON said she would  like to see "something very                                                               
strong here" or there may be many violations.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNHILL responded  that he has discussed  deleting this part                                                               
with the  criminal section [of  DOL] which  said "to get  a judge                                                               
comfortable  with a  new forfeiture  section, there  is going  to                                                               
have to be a major violation.  There's  going to have to be a lot                                                               
of bootlegged  cigarettes at  stake."  He  said that  if deleting                                                               
this does not work, it can be returned  to at a later date for an                                                               
amendment  to require  mandatory  forfeiture.   He reported  that                                                               
[DOL]  is  comfortable  with  deleting  [subsection  (i)  of  the                                                               
proposed CS].                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNHILL continued  to say on page 8, following  line [16] to                                                               
the  end [of  the proposed  CS], a  new section  is added.   This                                                               
section amends the  two criminal provisions in  the cigarette tax                                                               
stamp Act  [SB 168]  enacted last session,  which deals  with the                                                               
crimes of misconduct involving unstamped  cigarettes in the first                                                               
degree and  in the second  degree.  The threshold  increases from                                                               
1,000  to 5,000  cigarettes for  a felony  violation in  order to                                                               
address the concern of a felony  kicking in when the threshold is                                                               
too low,  and in  order to  achieve parity with  the rest  of the                                                               
criminal statutes.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1410                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH  asked on page  2, line 18, and  page 3,                                                               
line  1 [of  Amendment  4],  why it  doesn't  say "with  reckless                                                               
knowing or intentional disregard" instead of just "reckless."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNHILL said he does not recall the reason.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH  asked if there  is a reason not  to add                                                               
those standard words.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNHILL said he thinks  that reckless disregard is the floor                                                               
of  intent  and knowing  or  intentional  is  a higher  level  of                                                               
intent.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH asked if reckless is the lowest form.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNHILL replied yes.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON asked  what  the change  in  number is  in                                                               
cartons.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNHILL said five cartons.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  asked if  a person can  now bring  in five                                                               
cartons of cigarettes for personal use.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNHILL  replied that  is a different  issue.   Elsewhere in                                                               
the statutes  there is  a provision  for people  to bring  in 100                                                               
cigarettes a month, he explained.   This amendment has to do with                                                               
bootlegging:   any amount of  bootlegging up to  5,000 cigarettes                                                               
is a misdemeanor, and anything over 5,000 is a felony, he added.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1608                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked why the  number of cigarettes is used                                                               
rather than the number of cartons.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNHILL said he has no idea.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG,  responding to  Representative Wilson's                                                               
question, said that  the size of a carton could  be varied, but a                                                               
number is certain.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG referred to page  8 [of the proposed CS]                                                               
and suggested a renumbering of the Section 16.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1743                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER  acknowledged that any conforming  changes that need                                                               
to be made, should this  amendment be approved, Legislative Legal                                                               
and  Research Services  could  incorporate  without changing  the                                                               
substance of the amendment.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  asked Mr.  Barnhill if [Section  16] of                                                               
the amendment conforms the misdemeanors.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNHILL replied yes.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  asked   if  possessing  one  unstamped                                                               
cigarette would  be a  misdemeanor, and he  said he  is concerned                                                               
about that  because packs  are stamped,  but cigarettes  are not.                                                               
He  asked  how a  person  would  know  if  a cigarette  has  been                                                               
stamped.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNHILL  opined that if  a person  bought a stamped  pack of                                                               
cigarettes, those  20 cigarettes inside  would be deemed  to have                                                               
been stamped.   He continued to  say, "If someone handed  you one                                                               
cigarette from  an unstamped pack  of cigarettes, and  you didn't                                                               
know,  then  I would  say  that  doesn't  raise to  the  reckless                                                               
disregard  standard  required  for  either  a  misdemeanor  or  a                                                               
felony."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  asked how  many  cigarettes  are in  a                                                               
pack.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON said twenty.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG offered a  friendly amendment to say "at                                                               
least 20 cigarettes."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BARNHILL replied  that he is not sure that  would be received                                                               
as a friendly amendment.  He  said he believes that Senator Bunde                                                               
may have good reasons for making the floor one [cigarette].                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  said he  would not pursue  the friendly                                                               
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2017                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH withdrew his objection.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER  asked if  there was any  further objection  [to the                                                               
motion to adopt Amendment 4].  Hearing none, it was so ordered.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGG  stated  that  he   is  not  going  to  offer                                                               
Amendment 3.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said he is  not going to offer Amendment                                                               
6.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HAWKER  noted that  Amendment  6,  which deals  with  bond                                                               
requirements,  will  also not  be  offered.   He  explained  that                                                               
Amendment  6 would  have changed  Section 43.50.550,  which deals                                                               
with the deferred payment for stamps.  He read from the statute:                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     A licensee who submits  an application for the purchase                                                                    
     of  stamps on  a deferred  payment basis  shall post  a                                                                    
     bond acceptable  to the department in  the amount equal                                                                    
     to 200 percent of the  maximum dollar amount of allowed                                                                    
     monthly  purchases under  this section  as a  condition                                                                    
     for approval of the application.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER  said this is  an important provision  for business,                                                               
in general,  but particularly  for small  businesses that  do not                                                               
have unlimited  cash resources.  He  related that he has  been in                                                               
lengthy discussions  with insurance  companies that  are involved                                                               
in bonding, but he has not been  able to get anyone to testify by                                                               
today.   Doubling the bond  requirements for small  businesses is                                                               
an insurance product  that is not readily  available, which could                                                               
cripple or  eliminate these businesses,  he said.  He  stated his                                                               
intention is to set the bill  aside and ask [DOR] to resolve this                                                               
issue so  that the ability  of industry  to operate in  Alaska is                                                               
not compromised.   He  opined that an  amendment would  not solve                                                               
the problem and more research is needed.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2333                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  mentioned that  the reason  he withdrew                                                               
[Amendment 5]  was to  not delay  the movement  of the  bill, but                                                               
now, knowing  that the bill  will be taken  up again, he  said he                                                               
will be offering his amendment at the next meeting.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER said that a brief  recess is needed to fix technical                                                               
sound problems.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
[HB 538 was held over.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 7:32 a.m. to 7:38 a.m.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HB 537-TOURISM SALES AND USE TAXES                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2434                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER announced that the  final order of business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 537,  "An Act relating  to the  levy, collection,                                                               
and administration  of sales and  use taxes on  tourism services;                                                               
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2550                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WEYHRAUCH  moved to  adopt  HB  537, labeled  23-                                                               
GH2114\A, as  the working  document.   There being  no objection,                                                               
Version A was before the committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2626                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
WILLIAM  CORBUS,   Commissioner,  Office  of   the  Commissioner,                                                               
Department of  Revenue (DOR) introduced  HB 537, a  tourism sales                                                               
and use tax  bill, on behalf of  the Office of the  Governor.  He                                                               
said it  applies to a  broad range of  tourist-related activities                                                               
such  as  taxes  on  cruise ship  fares,  shore-side  activities,                                                               
transient accomodations,  and guided tours.   Revenues for  FY 05                                                               
are  estimated  to be  $19  million,  and  for  FY 06  and  years                                                               
following, $49 million per year.   He called this bill a user-pay                                                               
type  of legislation,  which  will help  pay  for the  identified                                                               
costs associated  with tourism  in Alaska of  up to  $160 million                                                               
per year.   Elements of this  legislation are found in  the other                                                               
49 states,  he said.   "The administration urges support  for the                                                               
passage of this bill," he concluded.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2840                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DAN  DICKINSON, Director,  Tax Division,  Department of  Revenue,                                                               
explained the three parts  of HB 537.  Section 1  is the heart of                                                               
the bill  and adds a  new chapter  on tourism services  sales and                                                               
use taxes,  he said.   The  tax is  levied to  try and  catch the                                                               
transaction at  the point of  the sale  or when [the  service] is                                                               
used in the state.  Sec.  43.51.020 establishes the tax rate at 5                                                               
percent,  and Sec.  43.51.030 requires  sellers  or providers  to                                                               
register with  DOR, he related.   Sec. 43.51.040  establishes the                                                               
procedures by which the tourism  tax takes place within the state                                                               
and those  that take  place outside of  the state  are allocated.                                                               
Sec.  43.51.050  provides  for  the seller  of  services  or  the                                                               
commercial  provider  to  collect  the taxes.    It  details  the                                                               
conditions for  collection and  remittance, and  lists incentives                                                               
for encouraging  electronic filing, which  will save money.   Mr.                                                               
Dickinson continued  to explain  that Sec. 43.51.060  states that                                                               
proceeds  from this  tax  will  go to  the  general  fund.   Sec.                                                               
43.51.990  is  the  definition   section  and  the  two  critical                                                               
definitions  listed  here  are   the  "commercial  provider"  and                                                               
"tourism  service",   he  said,  because  they   determine  which                                                               
services will  be taxed.  He  said that those proposals  will all                                                               
be added to Title 43.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 3130                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICKINSON continued  to explain  Section 2  of HB  537 which                                                               
establishes  that the  tax will  apply to  all services  that are                                                               
purchased and  used after January 1,  2005.  Section 3  says that                                                               
the bill takes  effect immediately.  "What the effect  of this is                                                               
from the  time this Act  takes effect  until January 1,  2005, if                                                               
there  is  a sale,  which  will  then  ultimately be  used  after                                                               
January 1,  2005, we  tax that  sale.  If  something is  sold and                                                               
used before January 1, 2005, we will not tax it," he concluded.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 3319                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HAWKER stated  that  HB 537  would not  be  moving out  of                                                               
committee today,  and he asked  if there were any  questions from                                                               
the committee for Mr. Dickinson or Mr. Corbus.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG noted  that  there are  letters in  the                                                               
committee members' packets from Mayor  Begich and Mr. Lemke, both                                                               
from  Anchorage,  and  from Julie  Hursey  from  Alaska  Passages                                                               
Adventure Cruises,  which seem to  address very  serious concerns                                                               
about the  effect of this tax.   He asked Commissioner  Corbus if                                                               
he has had a chance to review any of those letters.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  CORBUS said  he has  not seen  those letters,  but he  would                                                               
review them and  be prepared to address those issues  at the next                                                               
hearing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG repeated  that  the concerns  expressed                                                               
[in those letters] are very serious.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 3436                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WEYHRAUCH requested that  the many people who have                                                               
submitted comments  and letters  to his  office should  make them                                                               
available to  the committee.  He  said he would like  to hear the                                                               
people who have taken the time  to come and testify on this bill.                                                               
He expressed  his appreciation to Commissioner  Corbus for always                                                               
appearing to  introduce his department's  bills, saying  it shows                                                               
leadership.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER  reiterated the importance  of the  public providing                                                               
written comments to be added to the record.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  said she  has several questions  about the                                                               
bill but would like to hear public testimony first.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 3659                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHIP THOMA, testifying  as an individual, said  that the question                                                               
of basic fairness  compels him to speak today.   He said that any                                                               
tax measure  that can be legally  levied on the cruise  ships and                                                               
their vendors  for the  benefit of the  general fund  is welcome,                                                               
and he  encouraged support of  that basic concept.   He commented                                                               
on the  definition of "transient  accommodation" on page  5, line                                                               
30 of the  bill saying that this definition is  not fair to small                                                               
year-round hotels and  lodges when the tourist  season is between                                                               
May  and  September.    He suggested  setting  a  tourist  season                                                               
provision  or  exempting  year-round  hotels with  less  than  50                                                               
rooms.  With a 7 percent bed tax,  a 5 percent sales tax, and a 5                                                               
percent tourist  tax in Juneau,  long-term-stay hotels  would end                                                               
up paying  17 percent  in tax.   He opined that  the head  tax is                                                               
working very well and should be  increased from $5 to $7, or even                                                               
higher in future  years, as long as the money  is used for docks,                                                               
harbors,  and  on-shore amenities  adjacent  to  the cruise  ship                                                               
area.  He  said he believes that Juneau is  reaching its capacity                                                               
to handle the one million  cruise ship visitors, plus 150,000 who                                                               
arrive by  plane, as  well as  the numbers of  crew in  town each                                                               
summer.   He concluded  that he encourages  the basic  concept of                                                               
the bill  and believes that  the cruise  ships should pay  a fair                                                               
tax.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 4030                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DENNIS  BRANDON,  President,   Cook  Inlet  Region,  Incorporated                                                               
(CIRI) Alaska Tourism, related that  he has worked for many years                                                               
to try  to stimulate one of  the economic engines for  Alaska, in                                                               
spite  of several  tough  years.   He  mentioned  that Alaska  is                                                               
losing ground to competitive destination  markets and pricing has                                                               
become a very  critical issue in trying to lure  a robust visitor                                                               
traffic.   Having  a  tax on  the tourist  industry  is going  to                                                               
further curtail its  growth potential, he opined.   He stated his                                                               
opposition to  [HB 537] because  it looks  at a single  sector of                                                               
the economy  to try to make  up for the shortfalls  in the fiscal                                                               
gap, which  goes counter  to economic  development in  the state.                                                               
Any  time  a tax  is  imposed,  it  increases pricing,  which  is                                                               
counter to the industry and to  economic growth of the state.  He                                                               
also  pointed  out that  it  is  difficult  to determine  what  a                                                               
tourism product is.  A  retail petroleum outlet does not consider                                                               
itself to be a tourism product,  but, in fact, gets the benefits,                                                               
as do  pharmacies and  restaurants, he said.   He  suggested that                                                               
the  industry be  encouraged rather  than  discouraged by  having                                                               
taxes applied to it.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING  thanked Mr. Brandon for  his comments and                                                               
said  he agrees  with  him.   He  pointed  out  that the  tourism                                                               
industry is  one of  the bright spots  in Alaska's  economy, from                                                               
his perspective, and said his  is concerned about the effect this                                                               
bill  might  have  on  that  industry,  especially  with  timber,                                                               
mining,  and fisheries  down.   He suggested  not doing  anything                                                               
that would  result in less  growth of the tourist  industry since                                                               
it is so vital to many areas in Alaska.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 4636                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ROGER GAY said  he does not appreciate the  piecemeal approach to                                                               
taxation  where  a weak  group  is  targeted.   Under  the  equal                                                               
protection clause everyone  should be treated the  same, he said.                                                               
If the tourist  tax can be justified for  tourism services, there                                                               
should be  a tax on all  services.  Taxes have  a negative impact                                                               
on the  people who are  subjected to  them and turn  all Alaskans                                                               
seeking recreation into tourists, he opined.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 04-19, SIDE B                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
MR. GAY continued  to say that Alaska's motto  should be, "Alaska                                                               
- we tax the other guy and pass the savings on to you."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 4555                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE BUSTAMONTE, President and Chief Executive Officer,                                                                        
Anchorage  Convention  and  Visitors Bureau  (ACVB),  stated  his                                                               
organization's opposition to HB 537  saying that they are opposed                                                               
to  all target  taxes.   For the  last five  years ACVB  has been                                                               
working to  build a new  convention center in Anchorage  with the                                                               
intent to  increase the local bed  tax.  This proposed  tax would                                                               
layer 5  percent on  top of  the existing 8  percent bed  tax and                                                               
take away  the upward  mobility for adding  to the  structure, he                                                               
said.   He explained that the  national average for tax  in large                                                               
cities   is  12   percent,  which   could  make   Anchorage  less                                                               
competitive at  13 percent.   He noted that the  tourism industry                                                               
has  been a  "shining star"  in Alaska,  has added  jobs, and  is                                                               
broad reaching, and  he stated his concern that  it keep growing.                                                               
He  said  that  the best  way  to  do  that  is to  increase  the                                                               
convention capacity by building a new center.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER  asked if  ACVB is opposed  to all  additional state                                                               
revenues such  as the  broad-based sales  tax, or  if it  is just                                                               
opposed to  the targeted aspect of  this bill.  He  also asked if                                                               
Mr.  Bustamonte  believes that  the  tourism  industry should  be                                                               
exempt from all state taxes.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BUSTAMANTE  replied, "That  is  something  that we  need  to                                                               
evaluate as we  have more details if we're going  to have the tax                                                               
you're  talking  about -  broad-based  taxation."   He  said  his                                                               
organization supports  percent of  market value (POMV)  and would                                                               
look at a broad-based tax,  but with protecting entities that are                                                               
always taxed, such as hotels and car rentals.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 3953                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RON PECK,  President, Alaska Travel Industry  Association (ATIA),                                                               
stated his  opposition to HB  537 because it  is a tax  that will                                                               
not benefit tourism  or the state in  the long run.   A 5 percent                                                               
tourism sales tax is too high and  none of the revenue will go to                                                               
tourism marketing,  he opined.   He said  that ATIA has  a better                                                               
solution, which is  to create a tourism  marketing assessment and                                                               
return the  proceeds back  into tourism marketing.   A  5 percent                                                               
tourism  tax  will  add  to  the price  of  visiting  Alaska  and                                                               
potential customers  may reevaluate their decisions  to travel to                                                               
Alaska, which  is already perceived as  an expensive destination,                                                               
he related.  The tax may  cause some businesses to lose access to                                                               
nationwide  cooperative  marketing  programs  and  be  unable  to                                                               
compete nationwide, he opined.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 3632                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  SHIVELY,  Vice  President   for  Government  and  Community                                                               
Relations,  Holland  America  Lines,  said  that  the  Governor's                                                               
transmittal letter  of March 16,2004,  has several  problems from                                                               
his organization's  standpoint.   It makes estimates  on revenues                                                               
of $19  million in FY 05  and $49 million thereafter  and Holland                                                               
America  Lines  was  surprised  to  see  no  analysis  [of  those                                                               
figures].  He  said he is interested in finding  out how DOR came                                                               
to those figures.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHIVELY continued  to say that another problem  in the letter                                                               
is the claim  that the state is currently  providing $116 million                                                               
in services to the cruise industry.   He called it a fantasy or a                                                               
fabrication  on the  part of  the  administration.   The list  of                                                               
these  expenses provided  to  Representative  Gatto is  "outright                                                               
wrong" because  it lists things  that have already been  paid for                                                               
like the  Alaska railroad, the Anchorage  and Fairbanks airports,                                                               
and the St. Paul Harbor, he maintained.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHIVELY  related that  the last  problem in  the letter  is a                                                               
statement  that "Alaska  can recover  part of  its costs  through                                                               
reasonable taxes without appreciably  - I emphasize appreciably -                                                               
affecting the  growth of  the Alaska cruise  ship industry."   He                                                               
said  he  does not  know  how  the  administration came  to  that                                                               
conclusion.  He compared this tax  to the tobacco tax which has a                                                               
goal to  reduce the number  of people who  smoke.  This  tax will                                                               
have a similar effect on the cruise industry, he opined.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER  noted that the  letter Mr. Shively is  referring to                                                               
has not yet been distributed to the committee, but will be soon.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 3155                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHIVELY  pointed out that "zero  states have the kind  of tax                                                               
that you're  proposing on the  cruise industry."  He  opined that                                                               
because  this kind  of  tax  is so  complicated  is probably  the                                                               
reason why other states have not  imposed one.  [Referring to the                                                               
memorandum from DOR], Mr. Shively noted  that on page 6, the list                                                               
of fees that are collected in  other states, none of the fees are                                                               
collected by  state governments,  but rather  by courts,  for the                                                               
same reasons  that courts and  communities in Alaska  collect the                                                               
fees -  the fees are  to go to  support the services  provided to                                                               
the  cruise industry.   The  port fees  that the  cruise industry                                                               
does pay  are listed on  page 12, he  said, which shows  that the                                                               
cruise  industry  does pay  its  way.    He called  attention  to                                                               
Anchorage, Matanuska-Susitna,  and Fairbanks to show  a growth in                                                               
the  bed  tax  directly  related to  the  passengers  the  cruise                                                               
industry brings to the state.  He  pointed out that on page 7 DOR                                                               
has listed what  other countries pay for head taxes,  but he said                                                               
constitutional  prohibitions on  certain  taxes  in this  country                                                               
don't apply to other countries.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2830                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SHIVELY voiced  his support  for  the comments  made by  Mr.                                                               
Bustamante and  Mr. Peck  against targeting  one industry  with a                                                               
tax, saying that is  not the way to go.  He  said that though the                                                               
tourist industry  has grown,  it is  losing market  share because                                                               
Alaska  is an  expensive destination  and the  industry has  been                                                               
opening up  new markets.   This  tax is  very complicated  and it                                                               
will have  a negative  impact, especially  if the  passenger does                                                               
not see the tax up front, he concluded.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOHRING  asked  Mr. Shively  to  provide  written                                                               
testimony to the committee and said he agrees with him.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHIVELY replied that he  would provide a letter that contains                                                               
the points he discussed.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2333                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ALLAN  TESCHE,  Member,  Anchorage Assembly,  reported  that  the                                                               
Anchorage  Assembly  passed  Anchorage Resolution  (AR)  2458  on                                                               
March 2,  which made the point  that the proposed tax  on tourism                                                               
will  effectively  kill  a  new  downtown  civic  and  convention                                                               
center.  An existing tax of 8  percent, which is used in part for                                                               
the visitor  industry, together  with the  proposed 5  percent is                                                               
going to  make it very  difficult for  [the Assembly] to  sell an                                                               
additional 4  percent tax to  the electorate.   A 17  percent tax                                                               
would send a chilling message  that economic development is not a                                                               
priority, and  would send a message  to the Lower 48  that Alaska                                                               
is very expensive, he said.   He urged the legislature to look at                                                               
a  broad-based  fiscal  plan  that does  not  target  a  specific                                                               
industry or group.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. TESCHE referred to the  Alaska Municipal League's 2004 policy                                                               
statement to answer the question  if [the Assembly] would support                                                               
any  other  broad-based tax.    He  indicated opposition  to  any                                                               
action that would diminish the  existing statutory authorities of                                                               
local governments  to raise needed  revenues through the  levy of                                                               
taxes.   He suggested that  the way out  is to consider  a broad-                                                               
based tax which respects local taxes already in place.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.TESCHE offered  comments as an  owner of a bed  and breakfast.                                                               
The  17  percent  tax  would  be  very  difficult  to  market  to                                                               
transient  guests  coming  into   Anchorage,  he  remarked.    He                                                               
maintained that the tax would also  have a negative affect on the                                                               
cruise industry because those passengers  spend a lot of time and                                                               
money in  Alaska and  they would be  lost to  more competitively-                                                               
priced  cruises.   Anchorage would  like  to be  able to  welcome                                                               
large cruise ships  to their area again, but  that possibility is                                                               
"off the table" if this tax takes place, he concluded.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1714                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS asked Mr. Tesche  if he supports a general                                                               
statewide sales tax of 2-3 percent.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. TESCHE  replied that  he could  only speak  for himself.   He                                                               
asked how  [a new sales tax]  would relate to the  existing local                                                               
sales tax and said he would not  like to see it layered on top of                                                               
that.  The local taxing authority should be respected, he said.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS  asked if  "local taxing  authority" means                                                               
just a bed tax in Anchorage.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TESCHE responded  that there  are  other types  of taxes  in                                                               
Anchorage  like  the  car-rental  tax.    He  said  local  taxing                                                               
authority was used in the broad sense.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS  replied said  that if  this tax  is taken                                                               
off of the table, and  people don't want their dividends touched,                                                               
[the money] has  to come from somewhere unless the  budget is cut                                                               
some more.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. TESCHE replied that the  legislature has difficult choices to                                                               
make,  but  suggested   that  any  system  of   taxation  is  not                                                               
discriminatory and does respect local  taxes as they exist or may                                                               
exist in the future.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS asked Mr. Tesche  if he supports a general                                                               
income tax.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. TESCHE said yes, speaking only for himself.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1400                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  HAWKER  pointed  out  to Mr.  Tesche  that  he  emphasized                                                               
several  times in  his discussion  that any  state policy  should                                                               
respect, or defer  to local authority for any tax  that may exist                                                               
in the future.  He asked Mr.  Tesche if he is suggesting that the                                                               
state defer all taxing authority to the municipalities.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. TESCHE said he did mean  "respect" instead of "defer" when he                                                               
said he  has to recognize that  if a community such  as Anchorage                                                               
wants to  consider an additional 4  percent sales tax to  build a                                                               
new convention  center, there  should be a  system that  could do                                                               
that without layering  a tax on top of an  additional state sales                                                               
tax.  He  opined that the problem  with a sales tax  is the same,                                                               
and  he  suggested  carving  out an  exemption  for  the  tourism                                                               
industry.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER  said he does  have Mayor Begich's  letter regarding                                                               
the  convention center  issue  and AR  2458  [from the  Anchorage                                                               
Assembly].                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1129                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG remarked  that a lot of  municipalities have a                                                               
sales tax such as his community  of Kodiak, which has a 6 percent                                                               
tax of which 1-2 percent is  dedicated to a specific project like                                                               
roads or harbors.   He said is not speaking in  favor of [HB 537]                                                               
but said it seems to him that  putting a 4 percent city sales tax                                                               
on tourism is only one percent  different than the 5 percent tax.                                                               
Addressing Mr.  Tesche, Representative Ogg opined  that Anchorage                                                               
has  the option  of  pursuing  a general  sales  tax  to build  a                                                               
convention center.   He asked Mr.  Tesche if there is  any reason                                                               
he  would   not  want   to  "go  down   that  road"   like  other                                                               
municipalities and allow the state to enact a tourism tax.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TESCHE replied  that  the  answer to  the  question is  very                                                               
simple.   It is  a local  requirement in  Anchorage to  approve a                                                               
sales tax  only if  60 percent  of voters approve,  he said.   It                                                               
would be easier to pass a local  tax that is limited to hotel and                                                               
motel accommodations,  which are largely used  by visitors rather                                                               
than local residents, than to pass a broad-based sales tax.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG responded,  "Like a lot of  folks, it's better                                                               
in Anchorage to tax the other  fellow instead of having a little,                                                               
minimal tax on yourselves to  provide these things that are going                                                               
to be of benefit to your community."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS  replied that  it would be  very difficult                                                               
to  ever  pass  a  sales  tax with  a  60  percent  threshold  in                                                               
Anchorage, however, for individual property  tax it is similar to                                                               
people in  the state who  have a sales  tax and a  lower property                                                               
tax rate.   Per individual, he  said the people in  Anchorage are                                                               
on scale with the rest of the state.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0720                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
GEORGE REIFENSTEIN, JR., General  Manager, Mount Roberts Tramway,                                                               
said he has  been in tourism since  he worked as a  waiter on the                                                               
ferries in  1969.  He stated  his opposition to [HB  537] because                                                               
"it is a  targeted tax on an industry that  is experiencing a low                                                               
growth rate and yet is one  of the brighter spots in many regions                                                               
of  the state  as far  as  economic growth  goes."   He stated  a                                                               
concern for  the decline  in the  number of  independent visitors                                                               
because of possible  layering of taxes.  He said  he is concerned                                                               
that it  will be more  difficult for travel agents  and promoters                                                               
to package  and sell  the tramway.   Having  to verify  whether a                                                               
ticket holder  has paid the tax  is a problem that  could cause a                                                               
loss of  revenue, he said.   A tramway is  a mix of  tourists and                                                               
residents and  it would  be difficult  to describe  the tax  as a                                                               
tourist tax because of that, he concluded.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0416                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MIKE  WINDRED, Director  of Operations,  Alaska Travel  Adventure                                                               
(ATA), stated he has been working for  ATA for 21 years.  He said                                                               
he has operations  in the whole state and he  spoke in opposition                                                               
to HB 537.   He mentioned that two years ago  ATA was looking for                                                               
funding  for marketing  from the  legislature and  there was,  at                                                               
that time,  $160 million  in tourism  revenues, which  shows that                                                               
the industry does pay its way.   He said, however, that he thinks                                                               
the intent of the bill is to try  and fill the fiscal gap and not                                                               
to make the industry pay its way.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. WINDRED reported that 50  percent of the recreational vehicle                                                               
(RV) business has  gone under in Anchorage.  A  5 percent tax for                                                               
a  28-foot motor  home increases  the cost  to over  $200 a  day,                                                               
which is an important barrier to  someone looking at a package to                                                               
Alaska,  he opined.   He  said that  a 5  percent tax  would kill                                                               
ATA's RV business.  He listed  the taxes someone on a cruise ship                                                               
in Juneau  would pay to go  river rafting:  docking  fees, a head                                                               
tax,  a 5  percent  sales  tax, per  seat  bus  fee, U.S.  Forest                                                               
Service fee, and  sales tax on goods and services  to support the                                                               
business.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 04-20, SIDE A                                                                                                            
Number 0040                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. WINDRED  continued to say  that adding another 5  percent tax                                                               
would  be  taking money  out  of  ATA's  pocket.   He  concluded,                                                               
"Overall, I  have a little  bit of an  issue taxing a  little old                                                               
lady from Lincoln,  Nebraska, to solve the fiscal  problems in my                                                               
state."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER asked Mr. Windred  how he would target the residents                                                               
of Alaska.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. WINDRED suggested a broad-based sales tax.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0235                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON   said  a  broad-based  sales   tax  would                                                               
probably have  to be 2-3  percent.  She  asked Mr. Windred  if he                                                               
preferred a sales tax or an income tax.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. WINDRED said  he personally favored a  broad-based sales tax,                                                               
one  that is  a lot  lower  than the  5 percent  in the  proposed                                                               
tourist tax.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0352                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LORENE  PALMER, President  and  Chief  Executive Officer,  Juneau                                                               
Convention  and   Visitors  Bureau,  stated   her  organization's                                                               
opposition to HB 537.   She said it would layer  5 percent on top                                                               
of a 5 percent  city tax and a 7 percent bed tax  in Juneau.  The                                                               
7 percent  bed tax  is the  sole source  of funding  for Juneau's                                                               
convention center and for the  promotion of Juneau to the tourism                                                               
sector, as  well as  the meetings  and conventions  business, she                                                               
explained.  She  said a total tax of 17  percent would put Juneau                                                               
at the top of the nation  for taxes, which will make it difficult                                                               
to attract conventions on top  of the already high transportation                                                               
costs to get  to Juneau.  In response to  Mr. Tesche's discussion                                                               
of deferring taxes  to the local municipalities,  Ms. Palmer said                                                               
that  adding a  new tax  on  top of  the existing  bed tax  would                                                               
prevent the  city from raising  any more money locally,  both for                                                               
the borough  and for Centennial  Hall.   She said the  borough is                                                               
going  to see  a reduced  amount from  the bed  tax this  year of                                                               
$122,000.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER asked if Juneau has a head tax on the ships.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. PALMER said that is correct.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER asked if there was  a decline in tourist volume when                                                               
that tax was imposed.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PALMER  said  she  does   not  believe  so  because  of  the                                                               
consistent  increase  in  passenger  capacity  and  arrivals,  an                                                               
increase of  4-5 percent, and  sometimes as  high as a  9 percent                                                               
increase, over  the last 10  years.   On another topic,  she said                                                               
that unexpected taxes  can affect a visitor's  experience when he                                                               
or she goes to  pay a bill.  She said it  sometimes "leaves a bad                                                               
taste in your  mouth," and that could happen as  a result of this                                                               
tax.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0955                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DALE ANDERSON, Owner,  Auke Lake Bed and  Breakfast, testified in                                                               
opposition to  HB 537 primarily  because of the target  aspect of                                                               
it.  A  17 percent total tax would directly  affect his sales, he                                                               
related.   He said  he has  not been able  to increase  his rates                                                               
since 1999, and he markets  to independent travelers who are more                                                               
price conscious about spending on  their adventure to Alaska.  He                                                               
said he  is also opposed  to all of  the revenues going  into the                                                               
general fund instead of back into  tourism marketing.  He said he                                                               
would much rather use the  percent of market value (POMV) concept                                                               
to solve  the state's fiscal  problems.   He related that  he has                                                               
two jobs in order to pay the tax burden already in existence.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1309                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DOROTHY WILSON,  Owner, Coastal Helicopters, said  she is opposed                                                               
to HB 537  because it punishes the tourist  industry for bringing                                                               
people into the  state.  "The regulations described  in this bill                                                               
will  place an  onerous  burden  on a  business  like ours,"  she                                                               
remarked.   Small  businesses like  hers have  limited accounting                                                               
capability  and are  burdened by  maximum taxes  and regulations,                                                               
she  said.   She termed  the bill  complex.   She noted  that her                                                               
business,  which provides  11 full-time  and  20 part-time  jobs,                                                               
will be  out of business  if tourism  decreases due to  this tax.                                                               
She  opined that  the contribution  by  this tax  to solving  the                                                               
state's  fiscal  problems will  be  minimal.   "This  legislation                                                               
targets a  specific industry and  will have a negative  impact on                                                               
tourism in Alaska," she concluded.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING  thanked all  of the Juneau  residents who                                                               
testified  today and  said he  agrees with  all the  points made.                                                               
The testimony underscores  the fact that this is not  a good tax,                                                               
he opined.   He said is has  been a very good  education in terms                                                               
of looking  at the larger  operators who are paying  their share.                                                               
He suggested  that the  legislature look  at the  bigger picture,                                                               
which is the effect on the economy  a tax like this has.  He said                                                               
that [the  legislature's] role should  be to decide what  is best                                                               
for the  economy, not what  is best in  terms of revenue  for the                                                               
state.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SAMUELS said  he  sympathizes  with Ms.  Wilson's                                                               
industry  about the  multitude of  different regulatory  agencies                                                               
that have  to be  faced.   He asked  her for  her opinion  of the                                                               
sales tax in general.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WILSON said  she personally  supports an  income tax  or the                                                               
POMV, and not the sales tax.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1939                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PAMELA  LaBOLLE,  President,  Alaska State  Chamber  of  Commerce                                                               
(ASCC), said her  association of 700 businesses is  opposed to HB
537  because it  is a  targeted tax.   To  solve the  fiscal gap,                                                               
budget  discipline should  be used  first, then  new uses  of the                                                               
permanent  fund   earnings,  and  only  after   those  have  been                                                               
addressed, then  further taxation from a  state-wide, broad-based                                                               
tax,  she stated.   She  said her  organization has  not taken  a                                                               
position whether the tax should be  an income tax or a sales tax.                                                               
She said that  for years, business has been the  only entity that                                                               
has paid  taxes to the  state, and she has  a concern that  a new                                                               
business  tax  would  negatively impact  the  competitiveness  of                                                               
business.   She urged  the committee to  defeat this  tax against                                                               
the tourism industry.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2255                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS  VONIMHOFF,  Manager,   Aleyska  Resort;  Member,  Visitors                                                               
Benefit  Alaska, testified  that  he is  greatly concerned  about                                                               
this  new  tax.   He  wondered  why  [the legislature]  wants  to                                                               
penalize  [the tourist  industry], which  contributes so  much to                                                               
the economy in  terms of jobs, taxes,  marketing, property taxes,                                                               
and  capital  improvements.   He  said  it would  jeopardize  the                                                               
planned  [Anchorage]  convention  center.   He  said  the  entire                                                               
[tourism] industry  supports a broad-based state  tax and tapping                                                               
into the  permanent fund earnings, if  necessary.  He spoke  of a                                                               
survey  where 90  percent of  the  people supported  some of  the                                                               
permanent fund.   "I hope that  the legislature has the  guts and                                                               
the will  to solve our  fiscal problems  by either using  some of                                                               
the  permanent fund  earnings, and/or  introducing  some type  of                                                               
broad-based income and/or sales tax," he concluded.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER concurred with Mr. Vonimhoff's idea to use the                                                                     
great wealth in the permanent fund to support services and                                                                      
continue to pay out the dividend.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2630                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR HAWKER noted that further public testimony would be                                                                       
continued on Friday.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
[HB 537 was held over.]                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Special Committee on Ways and Means meeting was adjourned at                                                                    
9:17 a.m.                                                                                                                       

Document Name Date/Time Subjects